ACC Player of the Year and Coach of the Year

[CoeburnCane]

Here are the stats, instead of just claiming someone is bias and acting like that matters, here are the cold, hard facts.

(PPG, APG, 3P&, RPG, BPG, SPG)
Vasquez:
19.6 6.3 .382 4.6 0.3 1.6
Scheyer:
18.9 5.2 .399 3.5 0.2 1.6
Delaney:
20.9 4.2 .320 3.6 0.1 1.2

I'm sorry but in terms of pure numbers--that doesn't look like a "slam dunk" choice to me. 0.7 ppg, 1.1 rpg, and 1.1 apg and .1 bpg (Vasquez over Scheyer) doesn't make it "clear cut" or "slam dunk". It makes it a tough choice.

Plus, Delaney beat Vasquez/Scheyer in ppg by 1.3/2.0 respectively. He had to be in the conversation.

Then there's the argument (that is valid) that Scheyer split stats with two of the better players in the ACC in Singler/Smith. If you took Scheyer and put him on MD or VT, does he get the #'s that he had a Duke, or does he get better since more of the shots/opportunities would go to him? It's a valid question. Some people say yes, others no. That had to weigh in on the voting...which means it's not a "slam dunk".

Overall, I'm saying it's just a tough choice between the 3. Vasquez does indeed deserve it, but it's not a no-brainer. I'm not a huge fan of arguing over who is/isn't POY as it doesn't mean anything ultimately--basketball's a team game, people remember titles/championships more than POY's.

[Biggin]

I'm sorry but in terms of pure numbers--that doesn't look like a "slam dunk" choice to me. 0.7 ppg, 1.1 rpg, and 1.1 apg and .1 bpg (Vasquez over Scheyer) doesn't make it "clear cut" or "slam dunk". It makes it a tough choice.

Plus, Delaney beat Vasquez/Scheyer in ppg by 1.3/2.0 respectively. He had to be in the conversation.

Then there's the argument (that is valid) that Scheyer split stats with two of the better players in the ACC in Singler/Smith. If you took Scheyer and put him on MD or VT, does he get the #'s that he had a Duke, or does he get better since more of the shots/opportunities would go to him? It's a valid question. Some people say yes, others no. That had to weigh in on the voting...which means it's not a "slam dunk".

Overall, I'm saying it's just a tough choice between the 3. Vasquez does indeed deserve it, but it's not a no-brainer. I'm not a huge fan of arguing over who is/isn't POY as it doesn't mean anything ultimately--basketball's a team game, people remember titles/championships more than POY's.

thats absurd
that is NOT a valid argument at all. Smith and Singler make it easier for Scheyer to get open shots and better opportunities to score, thats facts.

when a team relies on one player as much as UM does, it makes it easier for other teams to develop ways to stop him, because as we've found it, stop Vasquez and Maryland is easily beatable.

when Player A leads the other players in a POY race in every stat category but one, how is it not the obvious choice?

[CoeburnCane]

thats absurd
that is NOT a valid argument at all. Smith and Singler make it easier for Scheyer to get open shots and better opportunities to score, thats facts.

No, that's your opinion. Just like the converse is my opinion. It may open up the court for Scheyer, but they take shots away from him that he would otherwise take and possibly make. His stats could look better if he had 2-3 more ppg that Singler/Smith pull away from him in the context of Duke's offense.

when Player A leads the other players in a POY race in every stat category but one, how is it not the obvious choice?

When it's by slim margins, as it is. Your numbers don't show a guy blowing out the other two guys in stats, it shows slim margins on average. Plus, per your #'s...he leads in apg/rpg/bpg, not every category. Delaney leads in ppg, Scheyer in 3pt %, and Vasquez/Scheyer are equal in steals/game.

[R0cketer]

thats absurd
that is NOT a valid argument at all. Smith and Singler make it easier for Scheyer to get open shots and better opportunities to score, thats facts.

when a team relies on one player as much as UM does, it makes it easier for other teams to develop ways to stop him, because as we've found it, stop Vasquez and Maryland is easily beatable.

when Player A leads the other players in a POY race in every stat category but one, how is it not the obvious choice?

I'm kind of confused. This is the argument was used in comments about all-lpd players earlier, and then it was one way, now its another

Its as always, clouded

[pvfan]

Show the stats in ACC play only and it's a large spread. Just like the LPD Rock, Hubbard>Vanover, Vasquez>Scheyer.

[pvfan]

Vasqeuz: 22.1 ppg, 44.2% fg, 6.7 apg, 39.8% 3pt fg
Scheyer: 18.7 ppg, 4.8 apg, 36.6% 3pt fg

Scheyer's fg% isn't listed on the ACC site for in conference because he's not in the top ten. Somebody lock this thread, or better yet leave it open. I'm rarely 100% right on something but this is it. Continue harping on Scheyer's skills if you wish Cane. Maybe Rock can chime in and tell us Vanover is better than Hubbard because he shoots 35 times a game. You see Rock, the difference is Vasquez actually shoots like 45% from the field. That is considered solid, by your logic Delaney should have won the award. He's not in the top ten in fg% either, if you shoot enough you will score. To Delaney's credit he gets fouled a ton going to the basket but anybody who shoots under 40% in ACC shouldn't be considered for POY.

[CoeburnCane]

I'm rarely 100% right on something but this is it.

In the words of the Mexican maid from Family Guy...."No....n-no....".

Compare those stats to the overall stats, and all what you posted means is that Scheyer stayed steady throughout the season w/his numbers and Vasquez played better when ACC play came around (as did the whole MD team).

Once again--I'm not harping on Scheyer. You are. I said all 3 guys were deserving to be in the conversation and...read carefully, use that PV edumacation...that Vasquez deserved the honor. I'm facking agreeing with you that Vasquez deserved it, and you can't let it rest that I have the opinion (along with plenty of other people) that all 3 guys were in the conversation at least--which is true. And you wonder why I've told you before that you with your MD bias is just as bad as someone with their "state of North Carolina" bias that you whine about on here each and every year. You proved it again.

The vote tally was:

Vasquez - 39
Scheyer - 12
Delaney - 2

...which I have no problems with at all. BUT--Vasquez didn't get every vote. That would have been the perverbial "slam dunk" you spoke of to start things off. He got the clear majority that he deserved, sure. However, some people out there actually voted for the other two guys, meaning they were at least (get this) in the conversation...which is all I said to begin with.

[Biggin]

Getting 74% of the vote isnt a slam dunk choice?

i think every President would disagree

[CoeburnCane]

Getting 74% of the vote isnt a slam dunk choice?

i think every President would disagree

Then we disagree on semantics. Big whoop. I still haven't said anything out of the way in this thread that I couldn't back up.

[Biggin]

well, except claiming someone's whole argument is worthless because they happen to be a fan, i guess you are right.

but getting 75% of the vote, and putting up the stats that GV did in the ACC, its a slam dunk choice